Measuring Mental Health with Ksana Health Co-Founder Nick Allen

You can’t fix what you don’t measure.  Measurement and testing of our mental health lags the same capabilities in physical health care.  Dr. Nick Allen, our guest today, is building a mental health measurement solution for clinical use.  Today we talk to him about the challenges, and opportunity for his startup, Ksana Health.

Nick is leveraging the tools and technologies that he developed as the Director of University of Oregon’s Center for Digital Mental Health into products and services that are transforming mental health care.

Nick is a clinical psychologist and social neuroscientist who investigates the interaction between biological, psychological, and environmental risk factors during adolescent development and measures these factors to focus on prevention of mental health problems.

You can connect with Nick here on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nick-allen-42256218a/

Ksana Health website:  https://ksanahealth.com/

What If Fellowship: https://whatif.vc/fellowship

 HERE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT:

  1. Nick shares his background in psychology, his focus on adolescent mental health, and about his decision to build Ksana Health starting in 2019.

  2. We talk in depth about Ksana Health, how the technology effectively measures mental wellbeing on a continuous basis, and where they are with the platform today.

  3. Nick talks about the type of data that is being collected through Ksana Health, what this data is indicative of in terms of mental health, and what clinicians can do with this data to further treat their patients.

  4. We talk about what is coming next for Ksana Health post fundraising, two big projects that they are currently pursuing, and what benefits will come from these expansions to the company.

  5. Nick shares about which groups they are most interested in working with, why these groups fit with their current business model, and how it will lead to less crisis in mental health overall.

  6. We discuss the previous attempts at digital phenotyping, why it did not work as well in the past, and how Ksana Health is doing it more efficiently.

  7. Nick gives advice for those who are just starting to explore this space as investors and entrepreneurs, and what other opportunities are out there for people to get involved in who are interested in this space.

 

Connect with the Stigma Podcast in the following ways:  WebsiteTwitterFacebookLinkedInEmail

Connect with host Stephen Hays here: Stephen Hays Personal WebsiteTwitterLinkedInWhat If Ventures (Mental Health Venture Fund)

Mental Health Startup Valuation Trends: January 2021

In this mental health market update episode, we are covering valuation trends, investor sentiment, and our 9 key takeaways from the mental health startup market heading into 2021.

We cover public and private market valuation trends impacting mental health startups, and we dig into results from a 150-investor survey we recently conducted on valuation expectations and market sentiment.  We also share our 9 key takeaways on the mental health startup market going into 2021 based on our 2020 experience investing $5.4mm dollars into 9 startups in the space at What If Ventures.

Links Mentioned:
Blog: Mental Health Investor Sentiment Survey: Extreme Optimism Going Into 2021

What If Fellowship:  https://whatif.vc/fellowship

Show Notes:
At What If Ventures we get asked this question all the time: “What is a fair VALUATION for my mental health Startup?”

I’ve summarized my thoughts on this topic based on 3 key efforts:
1) A recent investor survey of 150 mental health startup investors
2) Summary of public comps relevant to our space
3) Our insights into recent private market valuations / transactions

Calm Co-Founder: Michael Acton Smith, A Pioneer in Mental Health and Wellness

Calm App Icon.jpg

Michael Acton Smith, co-Founder of Calm joins us to talk about building the #1 app for sleep, meditation and relaxation, with over 75 million downloads and over 700,000 5-star reviews.

Michael tells us about how the idea was born from his own personal discovery of the power of meditation. In our conversation he tells the Calm founding story, and talks about the journey to making medication accessible to tens of millions of people while taking on stigma around meditation and mental health long before the recent surge in interest around the space.

In addition to being the co-founder of Calm, Michael also was the founder of Mind Candy and creator of Moshi Monsters, the online world for children that grew to 80 million registered users and expanded offline into books, toys, games, magazines, music and movies. Michael is also the founder of Firebox.com, Ping Pong Fight Club, and Berwickstock music festival. In 2014, he was awarded an Order of the British Empire for his service to the creative industries.

You can connect with Michael here: LinkedInTwitterCalm Website

What If Fellowship: https://whatif.vc/fellowship

HERE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT:

1)      Michael Acton Smith joins us to talk about how he came to find meditation as a resource for himself in his personal life. Michael shares the story of how his experience in the entertainment industry left him feeling burnt out and how meditation is the most valuable skill he has learned in his lifetime.

 2)      Calm origin story: With his co-founder Alex Tew, Michael wanted to bring meditation to people through something that was accessible, relatable, and simple. The app creation was their idea to achieve all of these goals in their attempt to change the world of mental health for the better.

3)      Michael talks about how meditation is so much more than just sitting quietly and breathing. It is a
neuroscience that helps to rewire your brain to get out of the fight or flight mindset and how to help your prefrontal cortex frequencies to be normalized.

4)      How has Covid-19 and the pandemic affected Calm? IIsolation mixed with anxiety surrounding the pandemic has caused mental health to be on the forefront of everyone’s minds. Michael talks about how his business was growing before this but now it has grown dramatically. He tells about his sense of responsibility to react to this current situation and to provide more content for subscribers.

 5)   Michael shares how calm has extended its reach to not only individuals but to companies as well. Calm is being used in businesses to learn how to manage stress, how to connect with colleagues, and how to increase emotional intelligence within the workplace.

Not only is this an affordable and life-changing choice for companies, but he states that it is a no brainer. If companies offer gym memberships to increase physical wellness, they should be offering calm memberships to increase mental wellness too.

6) How do you see the business of Calm evolving over the next few years?
Michael talks with us about the breadth of growth opportunities in front of the business in the coming years. He compares it to the scale of Netflix or Spotify subscriptions. In addition to that growth, he would like to see Calm being offered on a global scale in multiple languages. 

Michael discusses expanding calm into a lifestyle brand featuring clothing, hotels, even a resort on an island of Calm! When asked about what a Calm island would look like, he described it as a week or two getaway to focus on recentering yourself with healthy food, exercise, and meditation services.

7) Advice for mental health founders:
We talked about what founders in the mental health space could do if they are just starting to splash around in this space. Michael recommends above all else, patience. He says to not go after the first idea that pops into your head. He gives other tips to get yourself into the right mindset to find the big opportunities.

To expand on this, we discussed Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) that are most important to pay attention to early on as a founder. Michael shares that finances are so key to tracking as well as being incredibly mindful with hiring and workspace.

Additionally, Michael shares that in order to keep retention up of your customers, you need to create new content and how you want to keep your business on the front of your customer’s minds.

8) Michael talks about the importance of teaching meditation to younger generations. He shares his excitement surrounding how we are seeing mindfulness education in schools.  He raises the question, “what is more important than teaching the next generation how to improve their emotional intelligence?”

9) Finally, Michael shares how meditation is a skill that you can learn, and that means you have to be taught how to utilize it. Not only that, but you need to practice using it in your daily life in order to get better at it. We are starting to move in a direction where more and more people are using these skills in their life and being more open about mental health. Michael shares how he feels privileged to be able to be a part of this movement.

Connect with the What If Ventures and the Stigma Podcast in the following ways: What If Fellowship, Patreon, Website, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Email

Connect with host Stephen Hays here: Twitter, LinkedIn, What If Ventures (Mental Health Venture Fund)

 

How Big Is The Mental Health Market in The U.S.?

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We dig into 8 industry research reports to build up a total addressable market size for the mental health market in the U.S. based on revenues in the space during 2019.  We also leverage NAMI’s statistics on how much demand is unmet to gross our numbers up to represent a true potential market size.

In this episode, we also analyze One Medical’s Q1 2020 earnings report.  We talk about what it means for founders in the mental health space when we consider volume growth, earnings, the mix of virtual versus in-person care and reimbursement, etc.

You can find a detailed write-up on the market sizing analysis as well as docsend links to the supporting research reports and more on our Patreon page here: https://www.patreon.com/stigmapodcast

Meru Health Founder and CEO Kristian Ranta

Kristian Ranta, founder and CEO of Meru Health, lost his older brother to suicide in 2005 pushing Kristian to build a mental health solution that could help others dealing with the same problems his brother had. Kristian joins us this week to talk about how his brother’s personal struggle with depression and substance use was never addressed, in part, due to lack of access to quality care.

Kristian founded Meru Health in 2016 and the Company has evolved to become a tech-enabled telehealth practice that features a 12-week digital therapeutic program including therapists, psychiatrists, digital therapeutics and HRV bio feedback.

Kristian also shares with us his advice for entrepreneurs who are aspiring to build startups in the mental health space. He has published great content himself on this topic which we share below as well.

You can connect with Kristian and find links mentioned in the episode here: LinkedInMeru Health Website

Articles written by Kristian:

Building a Mental Health Care Tech Company

Mental Health Hacks for Entrepreneurs

Revolutionizing Depression Treatment with Digital Therapeutics

Links mentioned in the show:

Meru’s Long-Term Outcomes Data 

Meru’s HRV-Biofeedback Study

More Science & White Papers Here 

Mom test book

Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation and Growth 


HERE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT:

  1. Kritian Ranta, Founder of Meru Health talks to us about the founding story of Meru Health, a mental health startup. One of his motivations to build in the mental health space was the loss of his older brother to suicide in 2005. Lost brother 2005 oldest brother to suicide. Kristian explains that his brother struggled with substance use and depression, but never found appropriate help from a broken system. Kristian’s motivation to help people like his brother as well as his previously startup experience building medical devices and diabetes testing startups led him to the mental health space.

  2. He started Meru Health in 2016. The Company is a tech-enabled telehealth practice that features a 12-week digital therapeutic program including therapists, psychiatrists, digital therapeutics and HRV bio feedback. Kristian explains the business in detail, who their customers are, how they work with employers and payers, as well as how they on-board patients and he talks about the patient experience or journey.

  3. Kristian explains the long-term goal of Meru which is to help people get better holistically, and stay better. He shared that his data shows that 92% of his patients are improving on his platform and some are recovering fully from their behavioral health problems.

  4. What advice do you have for an aspiring mental health entrepreneur? Kristian wrote a really great article in Inc.com on this topic. You can find it here: Building a Mental Health Care Technology Company. We talk in detail about his top tips for founders including doing intense market research, and prioritizing company culture from day 1. We talked about when and how he learned these lessons and some of the pain he experienced in getting to these realizations.

  5. Where is the opportunity or white space for a founder in the mental health startup ecosystem? Kristian explains in details how he would advise a new entrepreneur in the mental health space to get started with their business. He talks about a systematic approach for identifying a problem, validating an idea, and doing early customer discovery. One of the things he talks about is how a lot of founders lean too heavily on “top down” market data (like the stuff you find on the NAMI website about the tens of millions of Americans who need help) instead of bottoms up market analysis approaches.

  6. In a conversation about “stigma” Kristian explains that we need to change our thinking about the topic of mental health as a society. Mental health isn’t some touchy feely, “woo woo” thing. It is a tangible problem rooted in biology and we need to treat it the same way we would a broken bone or heart disease, with the same level of care and urgency.

Connect with the Stigma Podcast in the following ways: WebsiteTwitterFacebookLinkedInEmail

Connect with host Stephen Hays here: Stephen Hays Personal WebsiteTwitterLinkedInWhat If Ventures (Mental Health Venture Fund)

Men's Mental Health with EVRYMAN Founder Lucas Krump

Lucas Krump joins me on the podcast this week to talk about men’s mental health. Lucas started a company called EVRYMAN, for the sole purpose of helping men, improve their mental health and wellbeing by focused on the unique dynamics that men deal with around mental health and wellness.

Lucas is passionate about connection, community and emotional wellness. As CEO and Co-Founder of EVRYMAN, Lucas together with EVRYMAN co-founders Dan Doty, Owen Marcus and Sascha Lewis lead a global movement that brings men together to develop their emotional skillset, enabling deeper connections with themselves and others. Since launching in 2017, EVRYMAN has supported thousands of men to lead happier, healthier more connected lives via retreats, weekly groups and online programs. EVRYMAN has been featured in the New York Times, Men’s Health, The Today Show and The Joe Rogan Experience Podcast. 

He is an adventurer and a traveler. Lucas grew up in Kansas, after college he spent 10 years living in Africa and Asia before moving to New York City and now Hudson, New York. where he calls home. His passion for service and commitment to purpose are rooted in his Jesuit education and midwest values.  He believes deeply in human connection and its ability to heal wounds and open hearts to the endless possibilities of the human experience. 

The mission statement of the EVRYMAN program says that we cannot change what life brings, but we can change how we respond. This resonates strongly with a lot of what I have learned in recovery from addiction.

You can connect with Lucas and learn more about EVRYMAN here: EVRYMAN WebsiteLucas on LinkedInVideo Explaining EVRYMANLucas on InstagramEVERYMAN on InstagramEVRYMAN Podcast


HERE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT:

  1. Lucas Krump joins us to talk about the mission of EVRYMAN. EVRYMAN is a men’s wellness organization focused on supporting men with mental and emotional health by improving their emotional resiliency. The approach is peer to peer support by combining online and offline activities aimed at bringing men together to practice improving mental and emotional health.

  2. Lucas explains the founding story of EVRYMAN and talks about his own personal struggle to find satisfaction and happiness in his late 30s. He thought about what he was missing and what he needed to make him happy. On paper, he had all the things society told him that would make him happy but that is not what he was feeling. That realization led him to create EVRYMAN out of his desire to find a group of men to support him personally in that effort.

  3. What do men go through? What causes men to have a specific mental health challenge differently than women? Lucas explains how men go through transitions in their life and how those transitions impact us. We talked about how socially and culturally that men have received a message that they need to “go it alone” during the singular pursuit of accomplishment. This leads men to struggle to handle the transitions we face in life.

  4. We talked about where the societal pressures that negatively impact men originated from and how they have evolved over time. We talked about why men tend to “suffer in silence” and what we can do about it. Lucas takes us all the way back to when we as a species evolved out from a “farming” based society to an “industrial” based society where individual pursuits were prioritized over team and community pursuits.

  5. We talked about being proactive versus reactive with our own mental health care and wellbeing and how someone can go from being “reactive” about their wellness and mental health to being proactive and engaging in managing our mental health.

  6. EVRYMAN started out as “in-person” men’s groups and has evolved into digital groups as they scale toward their goal of reaching and helping 1 million men with their mental health.

  7. We talked about nervous system regulation and learning how to do it (and why it is so important). We talked about how powerful groups, and interactions with others (sitting intentionally in a group, bound by a set of agreements) can be for helping us learn to slow down, feel safe, learn to express ourselves and begin to regulate our own nervous system.

  8. We talked about the EVRYMAN business, how they are growing, who they want to work with and what they need to scale including potential partners, capital, etc.

  9. Explanation of EVRYMAN from their website:

    EVRYMAN is not about “finding yourself,” but “creating yourself” — understanding and acting productively on your emotions instead of burying or redirecting them, and thereby building a more fulfilling life. With the need for safe distancing, our online program gives you what you need now more than ever. It’s an interactive behavioral curriculum, not therapy or guru worship, and we invite you to experience it for yourself.

    Many of us have suffered major personal, professional and financial losses over the last several weeks, often on top of pre-existing feelings of sadness, loneliness or disconnection.

    As a Benefit Corporation, we invest profits directly into operational costs, programming, and the technology required to inspire and improve the lives of men, their communities, and humanity at large.

Robin Williams' Son Zak Williams on Addiction, Recovery and Mental Health

Zak Williams joins us to talk about how he handled the passing of his father (actor Robin Williams) and how he found his way to sobriety, and eventually to mental health advocacy.

Zak explains that finding ways to serve, and to help others, was a huge part of his path to wellness and that being vulnerable, is one of the most important parts wellness and sobriety for him.

His story of substance use, and difficulties with mental health differences reminds me of my own personal experience and is highly relatable for anyone who may be struggling or know someone who is struggling.

You can connect with Zak here: LinkedInTwitter


HERE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT:

  1. Zak talks about his experience dealing with his father (actor Robin Williams) taking his own life and how that experience impacted his relationship with substance abuse, and mental health the resulting mental health struggles he had to overcome.

  2. Zak talks about service work and about how volunteering around causes helped to heal him. He talked about the first volunteer gig he undertook, teaching financial literacy to prisoners at San Quentin prison. Committing to something like this on a deeper level really impacted him.

  3. He eventually started to work with mental health non-profits. As he started sharing his story about what he was dealing with, it drew him into a movement of sorts. During this time he realized he needed to stop self-medicating and he found his way to sobriety at that time.

  4. We talked extensively about vulnerability, as well as authenticity and how the two are different including how society and pop culture have perverted the term “authenticity.” Zak explains why vulnerability is such an important part of wellness and mental health.

  5. We talked about how our biases impact our ability to be vulnerable and how this time of social distancing during the COVID-19 pandemic is forcing us to find new ways to find human connection, and be vulnerable, for the purpose of staying healthy. We talked about how the increased dialogue around mental health during this time of social isolation may be a catalyst to help us talk more openly about biases, and how to adjust for them so we can truly be open, vulnerable and authentic with one another as humans.

  6. I heard so much of my own story, and my own struggles in Zak’s story and how he’s handled and continues to deal with sobriety, recovery, mental health and helping others.

Connect with the Stigma Podcast in the following ways: WebsiteTwitterFacebookLinkedInEmail

Connect with host Stephen Hays here: Stephen Hays Personal WebsiteTwitterLinkedInWhat If Ventures (Mental Health Venture Fund)

Mental Health Market Update (5/1/20): UnitedHealth (Optum) Acquisition of AbleTo

Welcome to our first weekly mental health market update.  This is a segment of the Stigma Podcast where we discuss recent news impacting the mental health market.

Host, Stephen Hays, is the managing partner of What If Ventures, a fund investing in mental health startups.  Each week he will spend 15 minutes sharing his thoughts on the latest news, research, public market reactions, government policy changes, and more that impact startups in the mental health space.

In this inaugural episode of the weekly update, we dig into the UnitedHealth (Optum Ventures) acquisition of AbleTo.  We are focused on the valuation of $470mm which reflects a 10x revenue multiple. 

What does this mean for founders, investors and others interested in digital health and  behavioral health companies?  Is this a fair valuation?  What can we learn from it?  We dig in this week!

Mind Over Matter - Changing Your Brain Chemistry with Positive Thoughts

Did you know we can manually adjust our brain chemistry leading to increased happiness (and health)? 

Did you know that in countries like Zambia, people with a 4th and 5th grade education are being taught to successfully administer mental health treatment to local populations?  What can we learn from that effort to improve access and cost to much needed mental health care services in the United States?

We discuss all of this, and how these learnings can be applied to help us manage our mental health during physical distancing due to COVID-19 with Dr. Laura Murray

Dr. Murray is a Senior Scientist at Johns Hopkins school of Public Health in the Department of Mental Health and International Health.  She is a clinical psychologist by training.

Dr. Murray’s recent Op-Ed in the Baltimore Sun: Coronavirus stressing you out? Here’s how to cope (March 2020)

You can connect with and learn more about Dr. Laura Murray here: Dr. Murray’s  Johns Hopkins Profile, LinkedIn

HERE ARE MY NOTES FROM THE CONVERSATION:

1)      What are the mental health impacts of being isolated?  Here are some of the ways that isolation and loneliness can impact us.  Being alone can make us feel these things and experience these things so we need to be aware.

Isolation can make us: Fearful, worried, sleep and eat erratically, strain relationships, shorten our temper, cause suicidal ideation, increase substance abuse, and intense feelings of sadness, depression or anxiety.

If you are experiencing any of these things during this time, then you are not abnormal, you are not alone, and there are things you can do to manage your mental health and improve your experience during isolation.


2)      How can someone manage the impact of isolation during social distancing?
Dr. Murray suggested some ways we can manage our mental health during COVID-19 induced isolation and distancing including:

a)       Connect with others – finding ways to do this that works for you.  Even seeing someone’s face from 6 feet away can make a big difference with how we feel
b)      Authentic interaction – seek these interactions even if remotely
c)       Humor – as they say, laughter can be the best medicine
d)      Sleep schedule – consistent rest is very important to managing our mental health
e)      Activities that bring you joy or pleasure – this is up to you to define
f)        Limiting media exposure – I can only take so much cable news

3)      Internal narratives matter – what’s trending in our internal narrative?
Dr. Murray explains that our thoughts matter.  The more we think to ourselves “this is bad” or “my family will get sick” then our behavior and emotions follow those thoughts.

How does this work?
When we have negative thoughts such as “a lot of people are going to die” then a chemical reaction begins in our brain (within the amygdala) that triggers an emotional reaction.  That emotional reaction triggers a physical reaction (heart rate increase, discomfort, gastro-intestinal symptoms, etc.) and these physical reactions lead to anger, agitation etc.

Dr. Murray explains that manually retraining the brain, and what follows from those efforts, is the coolest thing she’s learned in psychology.

Neuropathways in our brain can change because of our behavior
Positively affirming ourselves, or exercising have more of an impact on our brain chemistry than most people realize.  Just a brief walk, or a kind word to yourself can release chemicals like dopamine or endorphins in the brain which impact the brain’s chemistry.  That brain chemistry impacts your emotions.  Not only is your brain getting more of chemicals that make you happy, you are also forcing your brain to get rid of chemicals that make you feel bad.

Even though some things like meditating, positive affirmations, brief exercise, etc. may seem like they aren’t doing any good, the impact really adds up over time.

4)      Change your vocabulary, even if you don’t believe it, and your brain will change.
In Dr. Murray’s research, she’s found that we create pathways in our brain and those pathways can be trained.  They become “engrained” so to speak and when certain things happen in our life we naturally or automatically react based on those engrained neuropathways.  We have the ability to manually adjust those pathways and change our emotions and behavior.


5)      This time we are in will produce MH struggle and addiction
Dr. Murray explained that people are coping with substances.  She believes we will see an upswing in addiction when we emerge from this period of isolation. 

A lot of us deal with stress and anxiety via drugs, alcohol, chemicals, process addiction, sex, pornography, etc.


6)      How do we know if we are developing an addiction problem during this time of isolation?
Whether you have had an addiction problem or not in the past, one of the best ways to think about it or manage it is just to monitor it.  Do you have a problem?  Just track it, write it down, a lot of people don’t realize how much they are starting to drink until they write it down. The first step is awareness.

During this time of COVID-19 this is a great time to reach out to people.    It’s a great excuse to check-in since we are all in this isolation period.  So, check in and ask people, ask your friends, neighbors, family members, etc.  How much are you drinking?  Are you ok?

7)      Laura spends a lot of her time working in low- and middle-income countries where mental health access is very low. 
She started her career researching HIV and the impacts of HIV and trauma on children in countries like Zambia.  She spent a lot of time studying kids who were HIV positive and have been sexually abused and how they have been able to take their life in a positive direction.

The challenge is that the ability to access treatment is still quite limited in Zambia, but they have found ways to train “lay providers” to provide basic mental health care, education and encouragement.  These are people who often have a 4th or 5th grade education. 

There is quite a bit we can learn about providing mental health care access in America from what she has learned in doing this in a place like Zambia.

What can we apply from that learning in the U.S.? 
A lot of people may not require full evidenced based mental health treatment.  May people just need more skills or tools in their toolbox when it comes to happiness and re-training these neuropathways in our brains. 

Many people who are not happy at work, or in a marriage, or social relationships are going to carry that unhappiness into other areas of their lives.  There are relatively simple skills and tools that can be applied to find happiness and prevent one negative aspect of your life from dominating all of your life with unhappiness.   While there is certainly a place for highly trained clinicians to help a lot of people, there is room for less skilled or trained individuals to help other humans learn to be happy.  This is what their work in Zambia is showing.

Connect with the Stigma Podcast in the following ways: Website, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Email

Connect with host Stephen Hays here: Stephen Hays Personal Website, Twitter, LinkedIn, What If Ventures (Mental Health Venture Fund)

Combating Loneliness and Isolation in College Students During the COVID-19 Pandemic

Dr. Danielle Ramo, from HopeLab joined me this week to talk about the launch of the Nod app. Nod was built by HopeLab in collaboration with Grit Digital Health. Nod’s mission is to reduce loneliness in young people and to prevent adverse effects during the COVID-19 crisis and beyond.

Danielle is a clinical psychologist and the Senior Director of Research at HopeLab, which is a non-profit social innovation lab based in San Francisco creating behavior change tech to help teens and young adults live happier, healthier lives. Danielle has worked extensively on projects ranging from addressing loneliness among college students, teen vaping, mental health of young parents, young people with cancer, and a multitude of others.

She is also an Adjunct Associate Professor of Psychiatry at UC San Francisco, leading a research program at the intersection of substance use and digital mental health. She has published over 80 peer-reviewed publications and publications on drug use and mental health.

More on the Nod app: Download in Apple and Google Play stores, Nod one pager, Press Release on Launch of Nod

Connect with Danielle and her work: LinkedIn, Danielle’s website, Danielle’s recent article in Thrive Global on ways college students can deal with loneliness during the COVID pandemic


HERE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT:

1)      Dr. Danielle Ramo joins us to talk about the latest amazing solution developed by HopeLab that helps college aged youth deal with loneliness. The app is called Nod and can be found in the Apple app store and in the Google Play store.

2)      Danielle explains a bit about what HopeLab is. HopeLab, founded by Pam Omidyar, is a social innovation non-profit that creates behavior change tech to support adolescent health and wellbeing.  They have created everything from video games, to chat bots, and apps that support physical and mental health as well as behavior change among young people.

3)      We talked about a recent CIGNA survey that found 79% of the GenZ population recently admitted to experiencing loneliness. We talked about why young people are struggling with isolation and loneliness.

4)      HopeLab conducted a survey of 1,400 young people between ages 14-22 in 2018. The survey focused on the relationship between technology use, social media use, and experience with loneliness. They found that there was no relationship between extent of social media use, and experiences of loneliness, depression, anxiety, or other negative mental health issues. They did find that there was a difference in how young people used social media based on their mental health patterns.

5)      What is Nod?
HopeLab and Grit Digital Health worked together to co-create an app called Nod. Nod addresses loneliness among college-aged young people who can often be overwhelmed by the changes they experience in their environment and in how social connections are made when they get to college. College is a risky time in a young person’s life and better interventions are needed. This was the motivation for creating Nod.

6)      How does Nod work?

Nod is an app that allows young people to notice and address misconceptions they had about making social connections. Friendships do not come easy, however, there is this expectation for many young people entering college that these new friendships should come easy. Nod works to help young people realize this is not always the case and that we all must work hard to make real social connections and that it’s a skill we can work to improve.

Two main features:

a)      Challenges – These are actions Nod encourages a young person to take. These challenges can be anything from texting a friend to let them know you’re thinking of them to things like joining a club or reaching out to someone on campus for a specific social reason.  Nod wants young people to engage in these challenges in order to make more connections and to learn from their efforts to do so.

b)      Reflections – Challenges can go well or can go poorly. Nod wants to support people to enjoy feeling good after a challenge goes well.  At the same time, many challenges will not end successfully, and Nod wants to support young people when a challenge does not go their way. They want young people to learn not to blame themselves or blow things out of proportion.  Reflections support people not taking on negative emotions in an unhealthy way.


7)      How much does it cost?

The Nod app is free for all college students right now. The app will remain free while the shelter in place order is in effect and while we are practicing social distancing.

8)      HopeLab would love to hear from students who use Nod during this time and hear what feedback they have.


9)      We also talked about the opportunity that exists to build mental health solutions around the younger population and specifically the college population. Colleges are not equipped to provide mental health resources to all students. There are a lot of opportunities for technology to be leveraged to build solutions that provide resources to students and provide care to students where the college’s own resources are maxed out. These are also environments where cost and scalability must be considered because college students and education systems typically do not have large budgets.


Connect with the Stigma Podcast in the following ways:
Website, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Email

Connect with host Stephen Hays here: Stephen Hays Personal Website, Twitter, LinkedIn, What If Ventures (Mental Health Venture Fund)

Ginger Founder, Karan Singh on Building a Mental Health Startup

Karan Singh, Co-founder and COO of mental health startup, Ginger, joins me in this episode. Ginger is one of the early pioneers within the mental health tech space and it’s an honor to have Karan join us to talk about the founding of Ginger, the mental health startup space, and his advice to aspiring mental health startup founders.

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He tells the founding story of Ginger, as well as how the business has evolved and grown into what it is today. Ginger has accomplished quite a bit in the last decade and has been named one of the Top 10 Most Innovative Companies in Healthcare by Fast Company, while also being identified by the World Economic Forum as a Technology Pioneer.

He did his undergraduate studies at UC Berkeley and got his MBA from MIT (Sloan School of Business). He was in the Harvard Medical School / MIT Health, Science and Technology program, but left to build Ginger.

You can connect with Karan here: LinkedInGinger WebsiteKaran on Twitter

SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT:

  1. Karan walked us through his bio/background including how he found his way into the behavioral health space. Karan’s journey into this space is a very personal one surrounding his reaction to a loved one’s attempted suicide, years ago.

  2. What is the founding story of Ginger and how has the business evolved?

    Karan walks us through the founding story of Ginger. The business began as a tech platform that would support health systems, using smart phones to measure mental health. At that time, and even still today, qualitative assessments make up the bulk of how we measure mental wellbeing.

  3. What is Ginger today?
    Over the years, Ginger has evolved into an on-demand mental health system. You can think of it as a virtual clinic for your mental health. Members have access to a team of coaches, therapists and psychiatrists. This multi-functional care team allows Ginger to deliver assistance to their members in under 60 seconds, any time on any day in all 50 states and in 25 countries.

    Ginger has partnered with employers to provide mental health care access to half a million people to date. These employers include numerous business in many industries including tech companies, airlines, unions and more.

  4. How do people find Ginger? Who can use it?

    Entry points onto the Ginger platform include:
    a) Employers
    b) Health plans (Optum, Aetna, Anthem, Kaiser, and others) for in-network covered care

  5. Karan explained that Ginger’s definition of “mental health” is far wider than what people normally think of. It’s not just psychiatry, but includes sub-clinical problems, depression, anxiety, and a number of other symptoms. For example, someone going through cancer treatment, may not have an elevated PHQ-9 score, but they likely require some additional emotional support, which is where Ginger comes in.

  6. What is the opportunity for Companies like Ginger in the mental health space?

    Fundamentally, the mental health space is broken. There is a massive supply and demand imbalance. Demand is going up. Supply isn’t keeping up. Ginger provides a set of interventions as a ‘virtual clinic’ that consists of talking to a coach, to a therapist, to a psychiatrist, and provides access to a library of helpful content.

    In the long run, Karan believes the great opportunity centers around preventative mental health. The ability to catch people early, before they have a crisis, leveraging technology, will allow Ginger to provide a higher level of care than what has traditionally been achievable, without technology.

  7. Where can aspiring entrepreneurs go after in the mental health space now?

    Karan explains that we need as many people as we can to be getting into this space, it’s a massive opportunity. The supply and demand imbalance mean the current mental health crisis isn’t going away any time soon. We need integrated preventative approaches as well as ways to help people far earlier (before crisis occurs) in a more wholistic way.

Connect with the Stigma Podcast in the following ways: WebsiteTwitterFacebookLinkedInEmail

Connect with host Stephen Hays here: Stephen HaysTwitterLinkedInWhat If Ventures (Mental Health Venture Fund)

COVID-19, Isolation, Loneliness and Your Mental Health

In the time of COVID-19 and social distancing, it’s important to know how we can maintain our mental health.  Kasley Killam, joins me for a conversation about loneliness, and isolation during this trying time and how we can protect our mental health even when we may not be able to connect physically with others.

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Kasley is a Masters of Public Health Candidate at the Harvard School of Public Health.  She is also a World Economic Forum Global Shaper and a social health advocate as well as a Contributing Writer at Scientific American (and has been for 5 years). 

In March, 2020 she published an article in Scientific American titled, “How to Prevent Loneliness in a Time of Social Distancing.”  In this conversation we cover her suggestions on this topic, and we dig into what isolation is, how it’s different than loneliness and why both impact us as humans so much.


Connect with Kasley: Her Website, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram,

Some of Kasley’s recent writing:

How to Prevent Loneliness in a Time of Social Distancing

A Hug a Day Keeps the Doctor Away

The Need for Human Connection in Digital Mental Health Care


HERE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT:

  1. What is loneliness?  What is Isolation?  Kasley describes the difference between loneliness and isolation as well as physical impacts that a lack of social interaction can have on the human body.


    Social Isolation
    – Is about being physically isolated.  It’s objective.  It could be because you live alone, or you have physical limitations or you lack transportation, etc.

    Loneliness – Feeling connected to other people.  It’s subjective.  Do you feel like you have people you can reach out to and connect with

  2. Chronic loneliness and social isolation can impact your health in a number of ways including these examples.  Here are some examples of how isolation can negatively impact our health:
    a.       More likely to catch a cold

    b.       More likely to experience depression

    c.       Increased risk of heart disease / stroke

    d.       Shortened life span

    e.       Decreased immunity

    f.        Increased inflammation

    g.       Decreased happiness, joy sense of purpose

  3. Loneliness is on the rise, but is certainly not a “new thing.” Kasley referenced a Cigna survey launched in January 2020 where they polled 10,000 American adults.  They found that across all age groups that 61% of people are lonely, compared to 54% the year prior.  This is particularly common among Gen Z who reported 79% feeling lonely.  This has been an issue long before this pandemic.  Link here to Loneliness Survey conducted by Cigna.

  4. Why are we so lonely?  Common reasons:

    a.       People are increasingly living alone

    b.       Technology – easy to blame, the evidence is mixed,

    c.       Less participation in social clubs and community organizations

    d.       People have less time to invest in relationships as they are working more

    e.       Social anxiety

  5. How can we fight against isolation during this time of social distancing?  Kasley tells us that one universal that we are all going through is that we are having to adapt and figure out how to function and flourish during this time.  There are a number of things we can and should be doing including:

    a.       Reflect on what social well-being looks like for you.  This is different for everyone.  This can include contemplating questions such as “how much time do I want to spend interacting with other people?” and “How do I like to spend quality time with others?”

    b.       Make a list of the people you want to keep in touch with and focus on the relationships we want to prioritize in our lives.  We need to figure out how we want to engage with those people. 

    c.       Connect at least once a day with one of these people on our list, or more, if we can.

  6. We also talked about how technology plays a role in both creating isolation, and how technology can be a tool to provide connectivity at the same time.  When discussing how to use technology in a healthy way Kasley explained that technology is often to blame for isolation, and it’s true, because many of us have unhealthy habits with social media and technology.  Kasley recommends that we use this time to figure out how we can use technology in ways that support your social well-being.

  7. We also talked about how introverts and extroverts handle isolation and loneliness differently as well as what healthy can look like for different types of personalities both during this time and later when we return to our old way of life.

  8. We also talked about what socially healthy use of technology and social media can look like now and in the future.  Kasley gives us tips on how to define what healthy looks like for ourselves and how we can manage our engagement with our devices and social media.

  9. Finally, Kasley gave us an overview of what a Masters of Public Health program is about, why she chose to get into the psychology space and what she plans to do once she obtains her Masters.

Connect with the Stigma Podcast in the following ways: Website, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Email

Connect with host Stephen Hays here: Stephen Hays Personal Website, Twitter, LinkedIn, What If Ventures (Mental Health Venture Fund)

 

Keto Diet - A Cure For Mental Illness?

Can the Ketogenic diet cure mental illness? Has it really been used to cure epilepsy? Is it safe? How does it work? We answer all of these questions in this conversation with Dr. Chris Palmer.

Dr. Chris Palmer is one of the world’s leading researcher on the use of ketogenic therapies for treating neurological disorders. He has done extensive research on the intersection of psychiatric disorders and metabolic disorders (obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and inflammation). There is a lot of misinformation on the internet about the ketogenic diet and therapies. Dr. Palmer dispels these myths in our conversation.

In this conversation Dr. Palmer explains the ketogenic diet, how it impacts your body, what it can and can’t do, and how it can impact not only your physical health, but your mental health as well. We took a deep dive into the connection between the gut microbiome, mental health, and mental illness in this episode as well as how to use the ketogenic diet to reduce symptoms from psychiatric disorders.

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Connect with Dr. Palmer and learn more about his work via these links:

Dr. Palmer on LinkedIn
Dr. Palmer’s Website
Articles by Dr. Palmer
Medical Journal Publications by Dr. Palmer
Extensive Research on Ketogenic Diet for Metabolic Conditions and Mental Illness

Other resources mentioned in this episode:

The Charlie Foundation for Ketogenic Therapies
Virta Clinic – Keto diet cures diabetes and other health benefits
For weight loss keto, learn more from Dr. Dom D’Agostino
Keto News on Epilepsy.com edited by Dr. Eric Kossoff from Johns Hopkins
Dr. Jong Rho at UC San Diego on diet and neurological disorders

SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT:

  1. What is the connection between the ketogenic diet and mental health?

    For many years, we have known there is quite a bit of overlap between treating epilepsy and treating numerous other psychiatric disorders. Many of the drugs used to treat seizures are also used to treat other mental illnesses. Likewise, since we know the ketogenic diet has been proven to reduce seizers and symptoms of epilepsy, it makes sense that just like the drugs used for epilepsy, that there could be other psychiatric uses for ketogenic therapies.

    The ketogenic diet has been around for about 100 years (first described by a physician in 1921). It was first developed for the purpose of treating epilepsy. We have a tremendous amount of evidence that the ketogenic diet is a safe and effective treatment for epilepsy today as proven by numerous clinical trials and clinical cases of positive outcomes. Keto is a very common treatment for epilepsy today.

    The most “famous” story of it working is the case of Charlie Abrahams who, at 11 months of age was experiencing multiple seizures per day. After many medications didn’t work, the ketogenic diet stopped his seizures and he has been seizure free and medication free for over 30 years.

  2. Why are ketogenic therapies not used widely as medical treatment for mental illness today?

    Most people are not aware of the abundance of evidence in favor of this diet or the basic science of it. This diet has been tested in randomized controlled trials in people with epilepsy.

    Just the idea of using a “diet” that many consider a “fad” or even “unhealthy” to treat something as serious as a mental illness seems to cause skepticism with most people.

    In the field of dietary science, there is a lot of disagreement about what is healthy and not healthy. There are also endless “frivolous” or “quack-ish” claims out there. So, when people hear that Keto can cure seizures, people assume it’s another quack claim.

  3. Why do so many people struggle to do the ketogenic diet?
    Johns Hopkins University did a trial on the keto diet where they screened 1,300 people and only 14 people completed trial to test the impact of the ketogenic diet on disease. That is a dismal outcome which makes us ask why so many people struggle.

    a) Skeptical people – Many people are skeptical about this diet because of the number and volume of naysayers out there. A lot of people say this diet is bad for you or will kill you and that this diet goes against the grain of everything we have been taught is a healthy diet. However, we now know that much of what we have been taught is a healthy diet, isn’t actually healthy and is the result of food industry lobbying and bad science.

    b) Immediate negative reaction – The 1st week or two of this diet is extraordinarily difficult to endure for most people. Your body is going through a dramatic shift in fuel sources from sugar and carbohydrates to mostly fats. This is a big change that effects almost every cell in the human body. This causes people to often feel worse at first which makes people give up a few days into it. This is likely why so few of the 1,300 at Johns Hopkins finished the trial.

    We need clinics and clinicians who understand this diet, its complications, the dynamics of the keto adaptation phase, and understand the “art” of doing this diet in order to increase adherence so we can complete more of these studies in a meaningful way and help more people.

  4. What are the obstacles preventing broader use of ketogenic therapies for psychiatric disorders?

    Obstacle 1: Skepticism about a “diet” as an effective treatment for a serious disorder.

    Obstacle 2: A lot of people can’t do this diet. There aren’t that many professionals, especially in mental health, who fully understand the diet and how to get people to do it appropriately or how long it takes to work. It’s a very difficult diet in the first couple weeks. Takes a while to work, just like any medication would and often people feel worse before they feel better so they give up too early because there aren’t enough well-trained doctors who can oversee the keto adaptation phase of the diet.

  5. Can this diet “cure” mental illness?

    Cure is a strong word and one that Dr. Palmer isn’t comfortable using here. He explains that significant, if not total, symptom reduction is possible in many cases and gives several anecdotal examples in our conversation.

    Dr. Palmer explains that in the world of epilepsy, people typically fall into three buckets when we monitor reaction to treatment:

    1 – Symptoms reduced
    2 – Cure – or complete resolution
    3 – Treatment did not work

    Among the people who get a positive benefit from ketogenic treatment (2 of the 3 buckets), m any of those people are able to come off of the diet after the right amount of time on it, and maintain many of the benefits they received from the diet. Charlie Abraham is the perfect analogy here of what complete resolution can look like for someone with epilepsy.

  6. Is the ketogenic diet safe? How long can someone be on the diet?

    Dr. Palmer explains that there are numerous variations of the ketogenic diet, and there are multiple use cases as well. The answer to questions like these depends on which version of the diet and what your reason is for a ketogenic diet. There are weight loss versions, medical versions, and some are more restrictive than others as far as what you can consume.

    If someone is having 20 seizures per day and they are completely disabled from living a normal life, and a ketogenic therapy can control their disability, then the consequences of taking the diet (some perceived, and some real) are worth it when you consider that having sever epilepsy for your entire life is far worse than any potential negative side effect of the keto diet.

  7. Is it true that people are curing diabetes with the keto diet?

    The Virta Clinic is the best source for information here. They have published research on trials they have conducted where they put 300 people through a weight loss version of the keto diet and found that many of the people who had diabetes were able to stop taking all diabetic medication. Check out their research here.

  8. Are exogenous ketones (supplements) good, bad, helpful?

    The ketogenic diet as many effects on the body. The primary mechanism of action in the keto diet is a change in gut microbiome. The food you eat during this diet, and the way your stomach digests that food can profoundly changes the gut micro biome. Just taking a supplement or an exogenous ketone avoids a lot of those gut microbe reactions that drive positive benefits for the body and brain.

    According to Dr. Palmer, there is no evidence that exogenous ketones (supplements) have an impact on mental disorders or epilepsy. That’s not to say they can’t and won’t work, but there has yet to be any real evidence through controlled trials to prove the connection.

  9. If I want to do the ketogenic diet correctly, how do I get started?

    If you want to use the keto diet to controls symptoms of a psychiatric disorder then you should seek the help of a professional to guide you through the diet, monitor you, help you, and ensure adherence in a healthy way. Here is where you can start your research if you are trying to use the diet for one of these issues:

    Epilepsy – go to a neurologist and Keto diet center for help properly executing the diet

    Diabetes – The Virta Clinic is a good place to start. They are a remote / virtual treatment program that works with your PCP to help you with the diet. There are others like them out there, so do your own homework on what may be best for you.

    Treat Mental Illness – You need to work with psychiatrist. SMIs are dangerous life-threatening disorders. This diet is a very powerful intervention (the medical version is far more than a diet; it is a medication). You need to be monitored by someone who knows what they are doing and can help you navigate the negative side effects in the early days of keto adaptation.

  10. Can the keto diet cure other diseases like Cancer and Alzheimer’s?

    There is current research ongoing about the impacts of the ketogenic diet on cancer treatment. There have been no cases where the keto diet cures cancer or removes a tumor, but there has been evidence that the diet can slow tumor growth. There are currently trials underway to analyze this.

    Some people have wondered if we could treat Alzheimer’s with the keto diet. This is a hot topic in the research community and is currently an emerging field. There is some evidence that Alzheimer’s relates to problems with glucose metabolism in the brain. If that’s the case, then changing the brain’s fuel source could logically have an impact on the disease. The keto diet provides an alternate fuel source to brain cells, so if those cells are not getting enough fuel from glucose, then the change to a different fuel source could be one of the solutions. Some people are referring to this as “type 3” diabetes today.

    There are some animal trials going on right now with regards to the keto diet and Alzheimer’s. One of those is taking place at Johns Hopkins and one at another university. Both trials show that a keto diet results in improvement in biomarkers for Alzheimer’s, improved cognition in about 6 weeks, and improved energy levels in about 6 weeks. There is much more to learn on this topic.

  11. What do the naysayers of the keto diet say? Who is working against the Keto diet?

    There are a lot of people who dislike the ketogenic diet. Many people say it isn’t good for you or has negative side effects or that it defies basic nutrition guidelines. The primary voices of naysayers are medical professionals that truly believe that saturated fats are toxic and will kill people by causing strokes if they eat a ketogenic diet.

    These medical professionals have been educated this way by the system and taught these concepts their whole career and failed to ever question the science, or the data to come up with their own thoughts. That’s what Dr. Palmer has done and why he has come to the conclusions that he has.

    A lot of medical professionals (who are good people, who have a goal of saving lives) truly believe this diet can harm people. Dr. Palmer disagrees with these doctors and is vocal about this because he welcomes an open dialogue about the science and the data for the advancement of public health. A great resource to begin doing your own homework here is the Virta Clinic research on the diet.

    In addition to these doctors, there are others who oppose the keto diet as well. This includes the broader plant based dietary movement. Some people don’t eat animals for ethical or religious reason. Other people prefer plant-based foods because they think that raising animals for consumption is bad for the environment. Dr. Palmer isn’t arguing for or against any of those positions, but rather just stating what opposing views are out there.

    One point we would like to make here is that an obese person, with multiple co-morbid problems is having a profoundly more negative impact on the environment in m any other ways than they would be having if they were eating animal-based food. Dr. Palmer explains this in the conversation.

Connect with the Stigma Podcast in the following ways: WebsiteTwitterFacebookLinkedInEmail

Connect with host Stephen Hays here: Stephen HaysTwitterLinkedInWhat If Ventures (Mental Health Venture Fund)

Corporate Executive Mental Health Leaderboard

In this episode I spoke with Rob Stephenson who is moving mountains to defeat stigma around mental health. He’s one of the most active, and most impactful people I’ve met when it comes to fighting stigma around mental health. His motivation is driven by his own mental health struggle with bipolar disorder and the overwhelming response he received a few years ago when he decided to come out about his struggles.

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His main focuses today are:

  1. InsideOut Leader Board – An annual list of senior leaders from corporations that have been open about their mental health struggles. The list is designed to celebrate each leader who has decided to be open, thus playing their part in reducing stigma and helping others within their organization to speak out and seek help. Click here to see the current list of corporate mental health role models on the board.

  2. G24 Global Mental Health Summit – A global mental health summit, spanning a 24-hour period on May 18, 2020. The summit is designed to bring people together globally during this time of need around mental health. G24 will start at 9am Sydney time on May 18 and finish at 5pm in San Francisco and will involve 3 consecutive remote events hosted over 3 main time zones allowing the world to connect.

You can learn more about Rob and his work here: Rob’s LinkedIn,InsideOut LeaderboardG24 Global Mental Health SummitArticle on G24Form Score overview


HERE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT:

  1. Rob tells us that his involvement in the mental health space is a personal mission driven by his own experience living with bipolar disorder.

  2. He talks about how mental health discussions in the UK, where he lives, have really changed since 2017 when Prince William and Prince Harry spoke out about seeing a therapist and their own challenges with their mental health.

  3. Rob decided to come out and share his story at that time. The reaction was overwhelmingly positive and really opened his eyes to how many people experience mental health and stigma.

  4. Rob created a non-profit called “Inside Out” – which publishes a leaderboard with a list of business leaders who have come out and been open about their own mental health struggles. Rob talks about how these leaders are doing a great deal to reduce stigma by making it ok to talk about mental health in the workplace and with family/friends.

  5. InsideOut Leaderboard has published a list of UK executives two years in a row and is working on their first US leaderboard now which should come out in 2020.

  6. Rob has developed something called a “Form Score” which is a daily mental health self-assessment that tracks mood, and other components of mental health and shares them with a select group of your friends/family/peers. It’s meant to be a social engagement feature around sharing our mental health trends.


    Here is how it works:
    1. Go to: https://lnkd.in/ex53iz8
    2. Scan the QR code or click the link at the top of the page
    3. Post your daily Form Score, Out of 10
    4. Watch the website update in real time for insights on broader wellbeing trends.

  7. Rob is also creating the world’s first global, 24-hour live mental health summit called “G24” in May. The event will take place on May 18th, 2020 with three 8-hour events hosted globally and continuously with the first event being an 8-hour even from Sydney, then an 8-hour event from London and ending with an 8-hour event from San Francisco. The event will include:

Connect with the Stigma Podcast in the following ways: WebsiteTwitterFacebookLinkedInEmail

Connect with host Stephen Hays here: Stephen Hays Personal WebsiteTwitterLinkedInWhat If Ventures (Mental Health Venture Fund)

Coming Out About Mental Illness

Coming out about having a mental illness isn’t easy. Elizabeth Horner, psychiatric nurse, mother of 4, joins us to talk about how she decided to come out to her friends and family about her bipolar disorder.

In our conversation we both shared our experiences from finding out about our bipolar diagnosis, to how we deal with it and what we can do to encourage others to speak their truth and de-stigmatize having a mental health difference.

Elizabeth’s story of how she finally decided to get help, then how she spent nearly 2 decades keeping her truth to herself and how she decided to come out about her diagnosis sheds a lot of light on the stigma associated with mental health that we face from society, from family and from friends. This highlights the need for us to talk about these things and normalize them so stigma decreases.

You can learn more about Elizabeth here: Blog Post: Coming Out With BipolarHer Blog SiteElizabeth’s EmailJanuary 2020 Post on Self-Acceptance

HERE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT:

  1. Elizabeth Horner is a psychiatric nurse, mother of 4, and lives with bipolar disorder. She kept it private for many years until she decided to come out and share her story on her personal blog.

  2. She was first diagnosed with bipolar disorder 20 years ago and didn’t tell anyone for about 19 years.

  3. She shares with us examples of her symptoms of both mania and depression.

  4. Elizabeth shares about how she started abusing recreational drugs and alcohol to manage her symptoms. She wanted to die. We talked about how we both have wanted to self-medicate the highs and lows with substances at times.

  5. Elizabeth talks about why she kept this a secret from her family and friends for almost 20 years. She reached the point where she just didn’t’ want to keep any more secrets, she wanted to be seen for who she really is. She shares about what kept her from disclosing this to her friends and family.

  6. Why did you wait so long to come out about it? She couldn’t bear the thought of how she perceived that others would treat her. But more importantly, she was fearful of how her view of herself would change if she spoke her truth. Elizabeth talks about “unconditional self-acceptance” and how she had to get to that place to be able to speak her truth.

  7. How did you make this decision to come out about it? She asked her family, and they encouraged her not to come out about it at first. Elizabeth wanted to own that this was a part of her, and she wanted to get to this place of self-acceptance where she could accept who she is, where she is.

  8. What was the defining moment for you on the path to self-acceptance? She told me it felt like she was trying to be silenced, which made her uncomfortable and made her feel shame. When she got to that crossroad, she decided to accept who she is and speak her truth with courage.

  9. When she finally spoke up about it, she felt a huge sense of relief. Owning her past experience was very freeing.

  10. What fallout could there be? Possible consequences with work, family, and friends. Not everyone will see it the way you do. You can’t control other people’s reactions. I’m going to stay honest with myself regardless of reactions.

  11. How do we encourage others to share their stories? 1) Stigma starts young, so we need to educate our children and talk to them about mental health. We need to normalize that conversation and talk about how it’s important to protect out mental health. 2) We need to examine our own feelings about mental health. We need to come to terms with our own views on mental health broadly. 3) We need to stop demonizing medication.

  12. We talked about what her support structure looks like from therapy, to medication, and other wellness practices. Elizabeth talked about how she keeps a daily mood chart and notes the benefits as well as short comings of doing so. Often times we find ourselves going to our psychiatrist and telling them we are fine when we may be that day but haven’t been for some period of time.

Connect with the Stigma Podcast in the following ways: WebsiteTwitterFacebookLinkedInEmail


Connect with host Stephen Hays here:
 Stephen Hays Personal WebsiteTwitterLinkedInWhat If Ventures (Mental Health Venture Fund)

My West Point Classmate, Nick Padlo, Discusses our Mutual Experience with Addiction, Rehab, Recovery and Mindfulness

Nick Padlo joins us for a very candid conversation about addiction, rehab, recovery, relapsing, and mindfulness. Nick is a long-time friend, and he’s a West Point classmate from the class of 2003. After a successful career in the Army, he obtained an MBA from Stanford GSB and ultimately formed a pledge fund to acquire and launch the Pet Loss Center. He drove the company to incredible growth.

In the midst of all of the success he was having as an entrepreneur, he struggled with addiction. But this isn’t a story of “entrepreneurship drove me to addiction” rather it’s a story of how personal struggles drove him to coping mechanisms which eventually led to addiction that impacted his ability to run his business.

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Nick ended up going to rehab, then going again about a year later. After his second trip to rehab, instead of going to an IOP afterward, he took a trip to Southeast Asia to focus on something he knew he was weak at, which is mindfulness. We spend time talking about the mindfulness facility he attended in Cambodia, what he learned there, what it was like on a daily basis and how it has changed his life.

You can connect with Nick Padlo here: Nick’s LinkedIn

HERE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT:

1) Nick shares his story of graduating from West Point, obtaining an MBA from Stanford and acquiring and growing his first business, the Pet Loss Center.

2) Nick was very successful with his first business, but he was in an unhealthy place in life. He walked away from his startup in 2019 and went to rehab for the first time. After rehab he walked back into the same personal life and relapsed quickly. The relapse was far worse than the first time he needed to go to rehab.

3) In our conversation Nick highlights how he made the decision to go to rehab the first time. He talks about how the first time he went to fix himself to be better for a relationship. Which wasn’t the right reason. He learned a lot of good things, but his motivation wasn’t in the right place.

4) Nick goes on to talk about his motivation for attending rehab the second time. This time he decided to go solely for himself. This time it was “death or rehab” and he knew it was his last shot. He went in feeling like this was his last shot, and he was doing it for himself.

5) During his second stint in rehab, he put a lot more thought into the training, education, and self-reflection because he was doing it for himself. He says that the second time he really “felt his way through it” versus the first time where he “thought his way through it.”

6) Nick explains that before rehab, he never considered going to yoga, or practicing mindfulness. We talked about how we both viewed mindfulness practices as something that wasn’t for us, before we went to rehab. We also discussed what we learned about mindfulness in rehab and how that changed our views of mindfulness practices.

7) After rehab, instead of going to a sober home or some other traditional after care program, Nick decided to go to Southeast Asia and dig deep on mindfulness practices. He realized that mindfulness was the thing he was weakest at, and going to a sober home and spending a little bit of time talking about all the things he learned in rehab wasn’t what he needed so he went to a place where he could do a deep dive on the thing he was weakest at, which was mindfulness.

8) He made the decision to go to this mindfulness training program by asking questions like “What is it that I’m missing?” and “Where is the best place to learn that?” He realized the mindfulness was a big weakness for him, so he looked for a place to focus on mindfulness.

9) Here is the program he attended: Vagabond Temple in Cambodia

10) Nick walked us through a typical day at the mindfulness camp in Cambodia, and what he got out of it. We talked about the mindfulness practices, how he learned to be mindful, and what kind of diet they encouraged him to be on to amplify his mindfulness journey.

11) We talked about Nick’s recovery plan now that he is back from Cambodia, and what he plans to do to remain sober now that he’s back in “the real world.”

12) We talked about Nick’s future plans and how he wants to take his experience as CEO of a high growth business, his new found sobriety and his focus on mindfulness and apply those experiences to find a way to work or build something that delivers the learnings he obtained over the last few months, to others, including other entrepreneurs.

Connect with the Stigma Podcast in the following ways: WebsiteTwitterFacebookLinkedInEmail

Connect with host Stephen Hays here: Stephen Hays Personal WebsiteTwitterLinkedInWhat If Ventures (Mental Health Venture Fund)

The Role of the Church in Addiction and Mental Health Treatment

Michael Perron is one of my sponsors in recovery.  He is also a minister who created and runs the Life Recovery Program at Prestonwood Baptist Church.  This program has been very influential in my recovery and was instrumental in saving my life from addiction and mental illness. 

Michael himself struggled for over 15 years with addiction to drugs and alcohol.  In this episode he talks about a spiritual encounter that he had, that turned his life around and set him on a path to ministry and dedicating his life to helping others.

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We dig into the role of Churches and faith-based organizations in helping people who struggle with addiction, mental illness, and mental health differences.  We talked at length about how the Church sometimes handles this in ways that promote stigma and do not encourage wellness.  

Michael explains how faith-based organizations can be effective in helping people who are struggling as well as the loved ones of those who are experiencing mental health differences and substance abuse issues.  He also talks about how the federal government is getting involved in supporting churches in this effort via the Department of Health and Human Services.

You can connect with Michael Perron and the Life Recovery group here:  Email: liferecovery@prestonwood.org, Life Recovery Program, Life Recovery at Prestonwood (Facebook Group)

HERE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT:

1)      Michael shares his story of recovery from addiction.  He talks about his upbringing, and how he ended up struggling with addiction for over 15 years, and eventually, how he got help.

2)      Michael shared about an encounter he had one day where he went to church, did drugs in the bathroom, and was approached publicly by a woman who told him that “God will restore the years the locusts have eaten.”  From that moment, Michael explains that God did for him what Michael could not do for himself.

3)      We talk about the role of the Church, and other faith-based organizations, in helping people recover from addiction and dealing with the mental health struggles that people face.  Michael explains that over 80% of the population approaches a clergy member about mental health issues first.  The Church is playing and will play a vital role in triage, and first response to mental health issues.

4)      What makes people feel like they can’t come to church for help?  We talked about the stigma within the church, and the way the church has either mishandled mental health or addiction struggles in the past or even outright denied the existence of the problems.

5)      We talked about one of the primary roles of the church being to educate people about mental health, addiction, recovery and be a resource for those struggling as well as the family members of those who are struggling.

6)      What should the relationships between the church and mental health professionals look like?  Michael explained how the church can be engaged in helping people, as well as facilitating getting people to the right place for them.  Some people need a licensed counselor, some people need treatment, some people need AA, and some people just need community.  The church needs to build relationships with people who have been through these struggles and become aware of resources in their area.

7)      What is the role of the government in working with churches around mental health?  Michael talks about what the White House, and politicians are doing to work with churches to make the churches a first line of defense in the efforts to get help to people.

8)      We talked about specific ways churches and faith-based organizations can support people who are struggling with addiction, mental health, and who are trying to help their loved ones who are going through these difficulties in life.

Connect with the Stigma Podcast in the following ways: Website, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Email

Connect with host Stephen Hays here: Stephen Hays Personal Website, Twitter, LinkedIn, What If Ventures (Mental Health Venture Fund)

 

Homeless Naval Academy Graduate Turns Entrepreneur

Bob Moran graduated from the Naval Academy in 1983. He served honorably as a Marine officer, but as he neared retirement from the military, he didn’t make the transition into civilian life as smoothly as others do.

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Like many veterans, Bob struggled to integrate into society, struggled to get the right jobs, and perpetually under-earned versus his potential as a graduate of the United States Naval Academy. This struggle, combined with his own mental health differences led Bob to losing relationship, his home, and his income.

Eventually, Bob found help in a civilian homeless shelter and made his way to the Department of Veterans Affairs. The VA helped him get back on his feet and now Bob has turned to entrepreneurship, in the mental health space, to build a better life.

Bob’s startup is called Mirror Image Clothing. He explains what they do and their mental health mission during our conversation.

You can connect with Bob Moran here: LinkedInStartup: Mirror Image Clothing on EtsyInstagramEmail

HERE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT:

1) Bob Moran graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1983. Bob talks about his transition to civilian life, and how he never really connected with high paying jobs. He explains how he perpetually under-earned and how that led to losing his family, his home, and how it impacted his mental health.

2) The VA — Bob shatters the myth that the VA is a “bad” institution and doesn’t help veterans. Bob found quite a bit of help and many resources for mental health, homelessness and other problems he faced at the VA. Bob encourages veterans, and their loved once, to ignore what you hear in the press about how bad the VA is, and seek their help because they have great resources.

3) Veterans Crisis Hotline — Bob shares with us that he approached the VA through the Veterans Crisis Line. You can read about that resource here. The phone number is 1–800–273–8255. You can also chat on line via their website or you can text to 838–255.

4) We talked about the stigma associated with getting help from the VA. Bob shares about why he didn’t seek help from the VA for so long. He viewed the VA as a place for people that “weren’t like him.” He thought he was “above” needing their help because he was an Academy graduate and an officer. Bob explains how that stigma was shattered for him and what kind of help he eventually received.

5) Bob has turned to entrepreneurship — Bob has leveraged numerous resources available to him via the VA, and other places, to create a startup focused on mental health, called Mirror Image Clothing.

6) Mirror Image Clothing — Bob’s startup is centered around helping people with their greatest struggle. Their mission is to develop a national, then global, brand of clothing that liberates people from their limitations. How? Online sales via Etsy at first, and simultaneously locate 1,000 female entrepreneurs ages 18–64. Then help them develop their ideas into million dollar businesses by providing founder training, experience and support thru a franchise of Mirror Image Clothing.